[AngelaM]

What if it does have hulls but oil is extracted? Is it ok to feed? My understanding is if it is 44% it does have hulls, 48% CP does not.

Also I have a friend in the UK and her farm supplier gave her soybean meal with a label that says 33% protein and something like 18% fat which I think means the soy beans have just been heated and ground, no oil extracted (therefore high omega 6 and high inflammation). I am thinking this would not be ideal to feed to horses.

Thanks!!

[AngelaM]

I had no idea that temperature swings were a factor in colic. I read your post yesterday and thought “hmmm…maybe it’s particular to their region”. Then today I learned of a horse that died from colic in my area (north shore of Lake Ontario) this week and we have had a lot of temperature swings. There may have been other factors but thank you for pointing out the temperature swing issue. So I understand your frustration but also want to thank you for pointing this out to me.

[AngelaM]

Welcome Liz!

I am a beginner as well and as such don’t have specific answers for you. However, I would suggest you to listen to the podcasts and really get a handle on the material that way. It is a bit complicated, there is a lot to it but I think it will help you and I think it’s important for us horse owners to understand from the basics up. I’m sure someone will weigh in with advice specific to your situation with breeding mares and if you have a solid base with the physiology of nutrition it will be that much easier to understand and implement.

[AngelaM]

Thanks, I’ll try a few different things. I have a Himalayan salt lick and a blue salt lick (not the kind with molasses but I think there is some sort of other component, possibly cobalt?) but I am also giving a mineral/vitamin called omenity. It’s a powder and doesn’t have any starches or oils or other unwanted ingredients but I am beginning to think I don’t need it at all after listening to the podcasts.

[AngelaM]

Thank you Jenny-I ordered the book you recommended.

[AngelaM]

Thank you. I am inclined to agree with you. I’ll be interested to hear what you think about this book.

[AngelaM]

I enjoyed reading your findings Emily! I found my mustang cross laying down napping when I thought he would normally be demanding food as well. I really enjoy seeing that. Also when I lead him out to hand graze for a few minutes (grazing paddocks shut down for winter here in Canada) he now walks calmly beside me. He used to trot trying to get to the grass faster. I tried training this out of him before but it turns out it wasn’t a training issue.

[AngelaM]

I do have a more willing horse for sure and he seems more content and not constantly hungry. He also seems a better pasture mate to our standardbred. I used to rush out in the morning to feed because he would start running the standardbred which I thought was frustration and hunger. Well it was but the solution was not adding more hay at bedtime which I thought it was prior to listening to the podcasts. After adding the protein and decreasing bedtime hay he no longer does this.

[AngelaM]

Thank you for your reply. I wonder if you would be willing to read a book called Mastering Diabetes- by Cyrus Khambatta and Robby Barbaro-it’s about humans only and insulin resistance. At first glance it seems entirely contrary but it actually isn’t (I don’t think anyway). They are saying IR is actually initiated by high fat and that by eating a high fat diet the body’s ability to cope with starches is vastly reduced and IR develops. They also talk about denovo lipogenesis not being a big factor in humans except in the presence of gross over feeding (well that is a huge factor today as evidenced by the availability of food). These guys advocate eating no animal products which I know you don’t agree with but like “good calories, bad calories” they go back in time and look at where we went wrong in diet and medical research because I think we can all agree that certainly things started going sideways many decades ago if you simply ask the question: does society as a whole seem to be getting healthier or sicker in our modern age. BTW I read Good Calories, Bad Calories a long time ago and also Jill Bolte Taylor’s first book “My Stroke of Insight” so the fact that you reference these authors really got my attention. Thanks!

[AngelaM]

Thank you so much Jenny. I will check to see if I can get that book. I am finding after 2 weeks that my gelding is less crusty with his diet change. I never did give grain but hay (and apple/carrot treats). But I did notice he doesn’t seem as hungry now which is making him more pleasant for sure. And I am working on consistency (we think we are but this takes focused attention until it truly becomes part of our subconscious). Thanks again.

[AngelaM]

Thanks!

So as I understand it omega 3 is also a pufa and it is the relative ratio of 6 versus 3 that is part of the issue as I understand they bind the same receptors and seed oils having so much 6 relative to the 3 leads to increased inflammation. I am also under the impression that other fats can bind and transport the LPS fragments into the rest of the body (ie saturated or mufa-I would think horses have a limited intake of saturated) and in horses I wonder if the FAs made by the bacteria in the hind gut could do the same.

I am thinking the lectins exacerbate the permeability.

Thanks for breaking everything down in such detail. It’s fascinating.

You mentioned omega 3s are sourced for horses from green grass. Would there be any left in hay?

Again, I really appreciate your work in helping us understand this. It is certainly complicated.

[AngelaM]

That would be great if you would reach out to John. Thanks.

[AngelaM]

Is it fair to say that much of the OCD seen in young horses that are competed early in life is epigenetically induced by feeding extruded grains?

[AngelaM]

Thanks Karen-glad to hear your experience. I am happy that by adding the SBM although we may have a challenging personality to deal with we’re removing the obstacles that don’t need to be there.