Doc-t
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Hi Karen – thanks for this bio. Remy sure seems happier and we are both grateful you found us. And thank you also for sharing this info with others! Doc T
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Thank you for being persistent in finding answers and knowing the difference between cover up solutions versus actually solving problems. This detailed story of discovering answers and then applying them means more to your horse than anyone on the planet, though I would consider myself second or third on the list of ones appreciating your tenacity. Thank you for trying, sharing, contributing and believing. Doc T
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I don’t believe that brushing the teeth is necessary with Equident because this using this product are reporting very good results without the need to brush.
I do remove calculus from the canines when floating. I am reconsidering this because the calculus is there for a reason – it is protecting the place where the lectins are entering. I think the better approach is to block further inflammation from the lectins by binding them before entering.
If you do get the toothbrush, please let me know your results from using it.
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This topic is an important one and I wanted to add a podcast to look at the details. After making it I realized that it was a visual podcast and not an audio so I decided to place it here. I also realized that I need to add more “bite size chunks” so I will keep on doing that until everyone can understand just how constantly eating sugar in a sedentary lifestyle is destroying our horses (and ourselves). In fact, insulin resistance (IR) is at the root level of almost every disease and condition in ALL domesticated species – and humans.
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There are agricultural engineering articles out there working on the technical engineering issues farmers have. I have read several articles on SBM and the unique issues with moving it. It is a “sticky” product that requires steeper angles for the augers (gravity assistance) plus the addition of “flow agents” to prevent clumping and jamming. I suspect that these additional handling issues cost money and that some manufacturers cut corners. I have no proof but I would guess that having other “things” in the meal helps them to move it through existing structures. They can then sell it at a lower cost to dealers who then sell it to horse owners at the same price to maximize their profit per bag.
What I am saying is that for some of us, you may need to put your money behind your wants. Tell the dealer you are willing to pay a dollar more for a clean bag of “horse grade” SBM. While this doesn’t seem like a lot of money, in agriculture, pennies are the difference. If they can profit the same or a bit more for better quality SBM, you still come out ahead with improved health for your horses. If you buy 50 bags a year, this is $50 more per year you spend for some peace of mind.
I will ask my wife to get the address off of the SBM bag we get. You could contact them to see if they can deliver to your area / feed store. If we ALL support a good manufacturer, they will continue to make this at the quality we are looking for and will force the others either out of business or to improve their standards.
These are the 2 options I see that we have to get better quality SBM. If you are getting good quality SBM then please add the address of the manufacturer to this list. I know we are a small group but maybe when you contact them you can tell them about this movement and one may see an opportunity here.
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Howdy Emily and (husband)! Thanks for being here and adding all of your images of your “crew.” I don’t often see husbands involved in the wife’s passion / obsession with the barn and I alway like to acknowledge them when they do come out to see me, though yesterday it was only because he wanted to know more about the Tesla than to know more about horses – LOL.
I am very glad to see this as a family affair. Doc T
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Doc T here with an update to those who have listened to this and may have gotten a little lost. I have a podcast scheduled for next week where I have the principles of this drawn onto a white board in real time as I talk. Helpful for those visual learners. But I have more ideas to break this into components.
Understanding these pieces will really help you understand how to help our horses avoid the perils of feeding them the way the experts suggest. Now you will know why. Here are a few hints:
1) Insulin resistance is a normal process, not a disease.
2) Glucose has 3 fates: stored as glycogen, used for muscle cell fuel or converted into body fat.
3) The production of body fat releases inflammatory cells called cytokines (and possibly at the root of laminitis).
4) The more glucose in the food the more glucose is made by the liver (a paradox).
Oh, there’s more. And yes I have a lot of other subjects such as EOTRH of horse teeth which I will present in the March Rounds.
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There are other protein sources but SBM (soybean meal) has a long track record. More importantly, SBM also has a complete amino acid (AA) profile. It is important to use these words before the word protein: “poor quality,” “good quality” or “high quality.”
SBM is a high quality protein as it has all the AA’s while all hay and mono-grass pastures are only good quality proteins. Add to this the ability of the horse to absorb these AA’s (the bioavailability) which determines how much of the protein needs to be eaten, SBM is 80% absorbed while all hay is about 50%.
All soft seeds such as wheat, oats, barley, chia, flax, sunflower etc were not meant to be eaten. To defend themselves, these plants created lectins which are plant proteins that damage the animal eating them. Gluten is one example of a lectin. There are thousands of them and I believe that they are the cause of EOTRH of the incisors and canine teeth of horses. They are the cause of leaky gut and autoimmune diseases in humans. They all have starch as well.
Occasionally eating them when they are in season will still have a negative effect on many individuals however feeding them daily throughout the year can be worse. There are zero seeds that I believe are “good” for horses. And why do we need to “supplement?” The answer lies in the fence surrounding them. Without access to migration, horses no longer have access to the variety of plants they need to gain all the essential amino acids. Therefore a high quality protein needs to be added.
There are plenty of minerals in the ground water and in the mined salt block we provide. Both of these are “supplementing.”
There are plenty of vitamins made by the gut bacteria in healthy horses provided the microbes have not been destroyed by feeding glucose in excess daily.
There is no evidence of needing any “essential” fats in horses because they are very good at creating all their needed fat from cellulose through their healthy gut bacteria.
Get the gut right and there will be no need to supplement with any food other than to restore their essential amino acids. Remember, ALL MUSCLES PREFER FAT FOR FUEL. Excess glucose destroys the gut microflora and upsets the rest of the nutrients. This includes the fashion supplements of chia and flax.
By the way, it has been determined that in some horses there is a RARE genetic deviation that consumes Vitamin E in greater amounts than the horse can make it. These horses will become Vitamin E deficient and need to be supplemented. However, most horses do not need Vitamin E or ANY Omega 3 fat supplementations if their gut microbes are normal and they have access to 1) cellulose and 2) body fat.
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March 16, 2021
It has been a while since my last “weekly” update. I have been to several snow covered states as well as dozens of barns to float a bunch of horses. I’m also experimenting with several sleep apps on my phone and wrist to figure out my sleep cycles and to smooth them out as I go from hotel room to hotel room.
In this COVID world, I have prioritized 3 things: my sleep, my eating times and my diet. My goal is to reduce my waist size which correlates to my metabolic health. It turns out that “Metabolic Syndrome” in humans is determined by several factors including blood triglycerides, fasting blood glucose, blood pressure and serum HDL cholesterol. However, according to the World Health Organization, the National Cholesterol Education Program, the International Diabetes Federation and the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, the number one criteria for diagnosing metabolic syndrome in humans is obesity. The waist measurement (around the umbilicus) is the key determinant. For men it is 90 to 102cm (38 to 40 inches) and for women it is 80 to 88cm (31 to 35 inches).
YIKES!!
I wonder how to convert this to horses? I can think of the BCS (body condition score) but I wonder if there is a math formula we could try (girth x length). However we can all see a “fat” horse when we see it. And with some of the things said here, we now know that horse, like humans, with metabolic syndrome (EMS) there also exists IR (insulin resistance. So more to come on this…
I also had a horse I could not float this week. Actually it is the 3rd time I’ve tried but I really want to survive so I elected not to float him. My opinion is that medications would not help. So how do I connect with 99% of horses? This needs to be recorded and a discussion of what to walk away. The “cowboy” they had sent this horse to had broken many bones in his body….
I also saw for the first time a gasoline nozzle being used as a water valve at the end of a long hose used for filling water buckets in a barn.
Gas pump water valve Finally, I attended a webinar put on by the AAEP discussing EHV-1 and all vaccinations in light of the EHV-1 outbreak in Spain. Several clients are calling concerned about this viral disease in horses that has affected over 100 of the 300 horses stabled at the Showgrounds in Spain and killed 11+. The consensus was that the EHV-1 vaccine will help but it is not guaranteed to protect all vaccinated horses from this disease – but do it anyway if you are going to shows. I have an “old” but still valid view on vaccines in the topic section.
Time to go into the very cold temperatures. Hoping my barns will have hot water for my hands. Doc T
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@Caroline and @Kerry – We all need to laugh at my absolute brain loss. Honestly I know I did this – added the link days ago. Where it went I have no idea but I can assure you all, you are NOT crazy.
The link and video are now (April 3rd) in the original post Matt made at the top of this discussion. I see it but if it should disappear…. please let me know.
Growing pains….
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I posted this somewhere else but I must have missed this post (identical on Solitude) – so I will copy and paste here:
From the Zoetis website is the following on how Solitude works:
HOW IT WORKS
1) SOLITUDE IGR is fed daily to the horse and is excreted in the manure.
2) House and stable flies lay their eggs in the manure, and the eggs hatch into the larval (maggot) stage.
3) As the maturing larvae feed on the treated manure, they become unable to develop into adult flies because cyromazine, the active ingredient in SOLITUDE IGR, inhibits formation of chitin. Chitin is the base of the fly’s exoskeleton.
4) The immature flies die.It seems to work on our farm with no ill effects on our small number of horses and I have not heard of others having a problem with it either.
More from their site:
EFFECTIVE
In two studies, Solitude IGR was 95 -100% effective against house and stable flies. Significant results may be observed within two weeks. Full benefits are realized between four to six weeks from initial administration.
SAFE
SOLITUDE IGR has been safely used in horses since 2003, and research has demonstrated its effectiveness and safety in horses. It creates a healthier environment for horses, as threats from infectious disease vectors may be reduced.
Greatly reduces the need for pesticide sprays and overhead fly systems, creating a healthier environment for horses, staff and riders. -
I’m not sure – but I’ll tell you this. As much as I love garlic in my food, NEVER feed garlic to your horses the morning of when the dentist is coming to work on your horses. I get sick every time I inhale it!
With this in mind, I don’t smell a lot of farms using garlic. Is it a wive’s tale? I would think so because if it really worked, I would smell it more when I go to the farms in the morning.
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Chia seeds are plant seeds and therefore fall into the seed category when discussing plant lectins. Because of this they are not included in the no-grain approach. But let’s say it was. What is it in Chia seeds that reduces fly inflammation and produces a healthy hair coat? This intrigues me.
We all want the “best” for the horse and keeping some horses in a high fly “attack” area using a fence may not be in keeping with our desires. The quick response is to add something internally to “fix” one thing but overlook any side effects it may have.
I would rather work on the chronic inflammation behind all the outward appearances of inflammation (poor hair coat, hives, welts, ventral midline dermatitis, etc). I start with removing as much gut inflammation as possible. This is the basis for the no grain challenge. I then try to reduce insulin resistance (IR) and increase insulin sensitivity. IR in humans is now the number one cause of chronic inflammation caused by inflammatory cells being released from the over-fed fat cells. This is done by reducing glucose intake. Between these 2 tactics, many horses are no longer having the skin conditions that plague horses in the fly season.
But even with the reduction in chronic inflammation, fly sprays, fly masks and high velocity fans are all needed in many parts of the world. It is a combined effort. And please remember in these efforts the cleaning of the environment – pick out the stalls and paddocks and move all waste to a location physically separated from the barn (walls, hedges, pits etc).
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@Jenny – Thanks and I’m glad you are enjoying them.
I am assuming that the reason the cheek teeth are not affected is because the opening of the salivary ducts are located next to the cheek teeth. When the grain is mixed with the saliva there is a better association between the lectins and the mucopolysaccharides that bind to them. It is my hypothesis that there is no association at the incisors especially between the incisors and the lips. In essence, horses affected with EOTRH are “dry mouth” at the incisors.
I can’t think of a way to test this hypothesis nor is there any profit to be gained by figuring this out and therefore little to no research would be funded for this.
It is hard to find “wild” horses as most are feral. 1) this obvious issue was not in the text books in the 1980’s – why? and 2) it should be a relatively easy history process where anyone seeing EOTRH can correlate it to feeding grain in the past. To my knowledge (though it is only a recent effort on my part), I am asking every horse owner with evidence of EOTRH if grain has ever been fed. To date grain has been found somewhere in the diet of the horse. For one it was years earlier but for almost all I have asked, grain was being currently fed.
Correlation does NOT equal causation so more detailed data is needed. Preferably, can we induce EOTRH with grain – and if so, how many are susceptible? However, I am seeing in in an increasing number of horses every month. Out of the last 300 horses I think I saw 8 cases – or a prevalence of 2.6%.
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@Kerry @Matt-Support We are trying to make this site effortless to find things but there is so much information. We will evolve this into better paths. Right now, you can go to the menu above and hover on “Resources” and then go to “Newsletter” and click on that. The header with the latest issue will appear. Scroll using the arrow buttons on the image to the issue you want and then click “View.” The newsletter will open in a new tab to read through.
Right now the image of each issue changes color, is labeled with the issue number and has the contents listed.
The reason Matt made a newsletter discussion (for example “The Horse’s Advocate Journal February Issue #2”) in the Community Forum is to allow members to comment and go deeper into a topic of that newsletter. It is a benefit of the membership. Please let me know if this helped you with your question here or if we can better understand what you want to make things better in the future. Thanks, Doc T
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Thanks @KayTeeDid – Store your SBM in steel or heavy plastic pails to prevent rodents getting in. You also don’t want it in humidity. SBM will spoil over time and should be thrown out (not fed) if it is close to a year old or is spoiled in any way.
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Our eyes tell us there is a correlation between a shiny hair coat and chia seeds but is the cause of the hair coat shine the same as the shiny hair coat people see after adding soybean meal? There are so many factors at play. What other parameters should we look at? Top line development or hoof quality might be other things to look at and we know SBM will improve these as well. It also will help the neurodegenerative disease of Cushing’s disease. But I have not heard of Chia seeds doing anything else for the horse other than to give a shine to the hair coat.
I don’t have all the answers here but I have a barn full of questions. The biggest one I have asked is where are the proteins? This is why I have advocated for adding high quality protein to horses to replace the lost amino acids from lack of supply and increased consumption through gluconeogenesis. What is the role of inflammation in horses including the quality of their hair coat? We don’t know and maybe adding chia seeds adds the anti inflammatory Omega 3 fats. But removing grain and other sugar reduces fat formation which is also anti inflammatory.
You know this about me but it is worth mentioning here for everyone else. I am a big fan of removing causes and not adding supplements unless there is a specific need. In my opinion, adding chia seeds is not addressing the underlying cause of the poor looking hair coat. Removing inflammation allows for the bacteria to make more fatty acids from the cellulose and resupplying the lost amino acids (of which hair is made of) both affect the cause of the poor hair coat resulting in the first sign people see after 2 weeks of changing the diet – a shiny hair coat!
Thanks for this question Rosie. It is important for me to get to the bottom of things and your question allowed me to explained this philosophy. To me it makes more sense to resolve the problem then to add for the rest of their lives a supplement. Doc T
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I searched for “exercise” in the search bar and the list became too long to see. But then I went to the forums “Home” page (you can see this in the menu above) and went there. In the middle of that picture of the horses running in the field you will see a search area with the words “Search forums…” I entered “exer” and it filled in the 2 forum items including the “February Rounds with Doc T – Aerobic exercise and it’s role in insulin resistance”
We ALL are learning this new space we call home.
By the way, I have scheduled for this next week a podcast with a white board presentation that will help with this webinar. In addition, I have explained it again – maybe a dozen times – to clients in the barns. I have some more ideas to help “chunk it” into smaller pieces. It will be fun to tease out all that I have packed into this presentation. It all is coming but in the meantime, I also need to continue to go from farm to farm to hotel for another 7 days. Please be patient.
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I have not seen proof that there is a deleterious effect of not feeding a horse for 12 hours. For a long time I also told people that without a gall bladder the horse needed small meals throughout the 24 hours. However, in the artificial world horses live in today, the horse is being fed glucose (starch, sugar, carbs – all the same) continuously and the gut never gets a rest throughout the year. We must all remember that hay is a man-made idea that is only 60 years old – meaning that 60 years ago we didn’t have a lot of tractors and baling machines, interstate roads, large delivery trucks or a hay distribution system like we have now. We also didn’t have genetically modified grasses and legumes sprayed with desiccants to prevent mold. When we had a hay delivery in 1973 (when I started) it was common to have half the load rejected due to dust and mold. Now this is infrequent. And hay is delivered to south FL from western Canada!
The bottom line is that continuous feeding of glucose in excess of daily needs will start the resistance of insulin at the muscle cells. It will also alter the gut microbiome. What I am about to say here needs to be seared into all of our minds: INGESTING SUGAR IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT FOR LIFE!
There are essential amino acids and in humans, essential fatty acids (maybe not for horses?) but there are zero essential sugars. This is because all animals can make ALL the sugar they need from gluconeogenesis in the liver. If you ate zero carbs you will be OK. But if you eat carbs in excess, the glucose will 1st be stored as glycogen (needed for emergency movement and to balance gluconeogenesis), the excess within the muscle burned to remove it and the remaining left outside the cell stored as body fat due to the completely normal resistance to insulin.
However, excess glucose (starch in grains and hay) within the gut moves to the colon where it alters (lowers) the pH and therefore the microbiota and the more acid pH leads to gut inflammation / ulceration / pain. The solutions are to 1) reduce the hay fed, 2) soak the hay to remove the sugar, 3) remove the starch in grain and/or 4) reduce pasture time or quality. Of course you can also increase the amount of moderate exercise for the horse that allows for more glucose uptake but be sure the stomach has some hay in it before exercising to prevent the splashing of the stomach acid.
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It is a common misconception that the SBM needs to be “prepared.” We have always fed it “out of the bag.” And what the horse spills, the dog cleans up!